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	<title>Comments on: Orson Scott Card is a misogynistic homophobic wanker</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.feministsf.net/?feed=rss2&#038;p=345" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345</link>
	<description>Feminists blog about science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy. Books, movies, comics, games, reason, &#38; ranting.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 01:30:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Synesthesia</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-267401</link>
		<dc:creator>Synesthesia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-267401</guid>
		<description>Also, you can&#039;t tell me that he wasn&#039;t just angry over the whole Dumbledore=gay thing. I was there when she outed him. She was answering a fan&#039;s question. Not being &quot;Self-serving.&quot; He had earlier articles where he praised her to high heaven, being irritated by the fact that she was relegated to the children&#039;s book list or some such nonsense.
But she outs one of her own characters, knowing all kinds of details about characters that other folks don&#039;t know about and he, whose idea of a gay character is a male who marries a woman and suppresses all of his homosexuality. Because homosexuality is soooooo terrible to family and all of society and marrying straight women and having babies is sooooooo much healthier.

This fellow has been a thorn in my side for years. I was such a fan of him too since Jr. high school. Seven Son had a strong affect on my paradigm, but I cannot understand or condone his intolerance of gay people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, you can&#8217;t tell me that he wasn&#8217;t just angry over the whole Dumbledore=gay thing. I was there when she outed him. She was answering a fan&#8217;s question. Not being &#8220;Self-serving.&#8221; He had earlier articles where he praised her to high heaven, being irritated by the fact that she was relegated to the children&#8217;s book list or some such nonsense.<br />
But she outs one of her own characters, knowing all kinds of details about characters that other folks don&#8217;t know about and he, whose idea of a gay character is a male who marries a woman and suppresses all of his homosexuality. Because homosexuality is soooooo terrible to family and all of society and marrying straight women and having babies is sooooooo much healthier.</p>
<p>This fellow has been a thorn in my side for years. I was such a fan of him too since Jr. high school. Seven Son had a strong affect on my paradigm, but I cannot understand or condone his intolerance of gay people.</p>
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		<title>By: Synesthesia</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-267379</link>
		<dc:creator>Synesthesia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 05:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-267379</guid>
		<description>Reading your articles about OSC.

You seem pretty cool because you get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading your articles about OSC.</p>
<p>You seem pretty cool because you get it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dragon Age comic out in March, written by raging homophobe Orson Scott Card &#124; The Border House</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-262759</link>
		<dc:creator>Dragon Age comic out in March, written by raging homophobe Orson Scott Card &#124; The Border House</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-262759</guid>
		<description>[...] homophobic terrorist, against the orderly pursuit of happiness &#8211; Yonmei, Feminist SF blog Orson Scott Card is a misogynistic homophobic wanker &#8211; Yonmei, Feminist SF blog Orson Scott Card: Criminalize Homosexual Behavior &#8211; Austin [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] homophobic terrorist, against the orderly pursuit of happiness &#8211; Yonmei, Feminist SF blog Orson Scott Card is a misogynistic homophobic wanker &#8211; Yonmei, Feminist SF blog Orson Scott Card: Criminalize Homosexual Behavior &#8211; Austin [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Yonmei</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-252500</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonmei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-252500</guid>
		<description>Sohail &lt;I&gt;What part of it was mysoginistic&lt;/I&gt;

This is discussed in more detail in the above thread: suggest that you read the discussion.

&lt;I&gt;I think it was cowardly to not have it more clear just to avoid controversy.&lt;/I&gt;

I don&#039;t know if Rowling did it &lt;I&gt;just&lt;/I&gt; to avoid controversy. I don&#039;t know &lt;I&gt;why&lt;/I&gt; Rowling never let Dumbledore come out (or even be outed after his death) in the novels, rather than leaving it subtextual and &quot;open to interpretation&quot;.

&lt;I&gt;Lastly I think it remains true that there isnt much in Rowling ouevre other than HP. &lt;/I&gt;

It&#039;s true that writing Harry Potter is what seems to have eaten up all of J. K. Rowling&#039;s attention since she became a published writer. I rather hope in years to come (especially after reading this &lt;a href=&quot;http://harvardmagazine.com/commencement/the-fringe-benefits-failure-the-importance-imagination&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Commencement Address&lt;/a&gt;) that we&#039;ll find out what else she may write. That comment came from pure professional jealousy on OSC&#039;s part - exacerbated, I don&#039;t doubt, that a mere woman was the one to write &lt;I&gt;the&lt;/I&gt; children&#039;s bestseller of this generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sohail <i>What part of it was mysoginistic</i></p>
<p>This is discussed in more detail in the above thread: suggest that you read the discussion.</p>
<p><i>I think it was cowardly to not have it more clear just to avoid controversy.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if Rowling did it <i>just</i> to avoid controversy. I don&#8217;t know <i>why</i> Rowling never let Dumbledore come out (or even be outed after his death) in the novels, rather than leaving it subtextual and &#8220;open to interpretation&#8221;.</p>
<p><i>Lastly I think it remains true that there isnt much in Rowling ouevre other than HP. </i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that writing Harry Potter is what seems to have eaten up all of J. K. Rowling&#8217;s attention since she became a published writer. I rather hope in years to come (especially after reading this <a href="http://harvardmagazine.com/commencement/the-fringe-benefits-failure-the-importance-imagination" rel="nofollow">Commencement Address</a>) that we&#8217;ll find out what else she may write. That comment came from pure professional jealousy on OSC&#8217;s part &#8211; exacerbated, I don&#8217;t doubt, that a mere woman was the one to write <i>the</i> children&#8217;s bestseller of this generation.</p>
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		<title>By: Sohail</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-252478</link>
		<dc:creator>Sohail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-252478</guid>
		<description>What part of it was mysoginistic? I just thought it was that he thought she sucked for being her, not for being a woman.

I also agree with the comment about her choice of outing Dumbeldore. I mean yeah, OSC is a homophobe, but he has a point. Even after rereading HP i dont see any real reason to think he was gay, atleast not anymore so than any other old wizard charecter in any other book (saruman or gandalf). I think it was cowardly to not have it more clear just to avoid controversy.

Lastly I think it remains true that there isnt much in Rowling ouevre other than HP. 

I apologize in advance for any spelling mistakes or grammatical errors</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What part of it was mysoginistic? I just thought it was that he thought she sucked for being her, not for being a woman.</p>
<p>I also agree with the comment about her choice of outing Dumbeldore. I mean yeah, OSC is a homophobe, but he has a point. Even after rereading HP i dont see any real reason to think he was gay, atleast not anymore so than any other old wizard charecter in any other book (saruman or gandalf). I think it was cowardly to not have it more clear just to avoid controversy.</p>
<p>Lastly I think it remains true that there isnt much in Rowling ouevre other than HP. </p>
<p>I apologize in advance for any spelling mistakes or grammatical errors</p>
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		<title>By: Orson Scott Card, homophobic terrorist, against the orderly pursuit of happiness at Feminist SF - The Blog!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-181317</link>
		<dc:creator>Orson Scott Card, homophobic terrorist, against the orderly pursuit of happiness at Feminist SF - The Blog!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-181317</guid>
		<description>[...] adultery) the first four are one and all feminist issues. As Orson Scott Card made clear in his rant about J. K. Rowling, he&#8217;s a spluttering misogynist: he especially doesn&#8217;t seem to like the idea that a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] adultery) the first four are one and all feminist issues. As Orson Scott Card made clear in his rant about J. K. Rowling, he&#8217;s a spluttering misogynist: he especially doesn&#8217;t seem to like the idea that a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy Magazine &#187; Steampunk Noticed By Mainstream Media; Iron Man Does Well At Box Office And In Depictions Of Women; Battlestar Gets Twisty (Again)</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-174335</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy Magazine &#187; Steampunk Noticed By Mainstream Media; Iron Man Does Well At Box Office And In Depictions Of Women; Battlestar Gets Twisty (Again)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-174335</guid>
		<description>[...] Yonmei @ Feminist SF Feels Strongly that Orson Scott Card is a Swollen-Headed Misogynistic Wanker [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Yonmei @ Feminist SF Feels Strongly that Orson Scott Card is a Swollen-Headed Misogynistic Wanker [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ghsts</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-174127</link>
		<dc:creator>ghsts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 02:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-174127</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re mistaken he is not homophobic, you need to read his books to understand his fantastical Greek visions.  He loves boys and girls, the delightful fancy of his Ender&#039;s series is naked children warriors floating in zero-G to relax without shame, weeeeeeeee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re mistaken he is not homophobic, you need to read his books to understand his fantastical Greek visions.  He loves boys and girls, the delightful fancy of his Ender&#8217;s series is naked children warriors floating in zero-G to relax without shame, weeeeeeeee</p>
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		<title>By: Yonmei</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-158227</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonmei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 09:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-158227</guid>
		<description>Update: The anonymouse agreed to be identified as &quot;anarchas&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update: The anonymouse agreed to be identified as &#8220;anarchas&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Q</title>
		<link>http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345&#038;cpage=1#comment-154589</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 12:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.feministsf.net/?p=345#comment-154589</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;IP: 2) it’s alright to be horribly angry and dismissive of someone who is, in fact, less evil than 99.999 % of the rest of the world.&lt;/I&gt;

&lt;I&gt;Yonmei: Of course. Orson Scott Card is not the evilest person in the world, but I’m angry at and dismissive of him nonetheless. Who argued otherwise?&lt;/I&gt;

Just FYI, I understood the commenter&#039;s comment to refer back to Card&#039;s contempt for Rowling -- i.e., while Rowling isn&#039;t the worst person in the world, it&#039;s still okay to be angry at Rowling. 

To that extent, I agree -- There&#039;s nothing wrong with picking and choosing our targets, and of course, sometimes we pick targets that are &quot;less evil&quot; than other targets along various axes. 

But the commenter is still missing the point, because the question is, based on what criteria do we pick our targets?  Are we truly picking targets based on &quot;evil-ness&quot; or are we picking targets based on some less savory quality, e.g., the target&#039;s race or gender?  

Yonmei &lt;I&gt;et al&lt;/I&gt; have convincingly made the point that gender is a very, very large factor in Card&#039;s choice. This is identifiable as sexism and misogyny.

&lt;I&gt;The intellectual property commentary&lt;/I&gt; - I feel I have to weigh in here.Yonmei quite properly points out several key pieces of analysis that are essential to radical analysis of IP. 

(1) Ownership and transfer of ownership to corporations / employers; 

(2) the class of creators.  Creators are, in this sense of having wealth but not necessarily being fully class-privileged, are very much like athletes &amp; entertainers. The athlete &amp; entertainer analysis should be familiar to anyone who looks at the intersection of class, wealth, and race.  [One key distinction, not relevant here but I don&#039;t want to ignore it, is that writers generally have a higher class-of-origin profile than athletes.] 

And I&#039;ll add two others, because I think that the commenter should complexify their analysis of IP issues:

(3) While some kinds of IP disputes might be clear, bright lines kind of ethical issues, which we IP activists like to champion, that&#039;s only &lt;I&gt;some&lt;/I&gt; kinds of IP disputes.  There&#039;s usually a lot more to the dispute than the simple issue that gets media attention or even added to the court documents.  By far most IP issues that make it to litigation are morally much greyer and have the character of business disputes. It is silly to, for example, simply assume that the plaintiff is always evil in an IP dispute. Litigation is a late step in a long dispute that often involves wrongs on both sides, and moreover, the &quot;sides&quot; are typically business interests. 

(4) Even when parties to a dispute are truly individuals, not simply business interests, it is also silly to black-and-white characterize people based on one position in one instance. You don&#039;t generally know the full fact situation; and you don&#039;t know their other positions. 

For instance, Le Guin was one of the writers on a writers amicus brief arguing against copyright term extension, a much better copyright position than 99% of successful SF writers. For another example, some writers have been &quot;fine&quot; with fan works until they were forced by various exigencies to take a more limited approach, and the available limitations are not always within the writers&#039; control.

(5) Finally, even when a case has free expression issues, it is absolutely silly and reductive to assign &lt;I&gt;moral judgments&lt;/I&gt; to the parties based on the implications for free expression / fair use case law.  As I said above, there is usually a lot more to the dispute than you know; the parties usually involve significant business interests of corporations, not individual interests and free decisions; and the individuals involved likely have a lot of ethics and personal beliefs they have balanced to come to their actions. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>IP: 2) it’s alright to be horribly angry and dismissive of someone who is, in fact, less evil than 99.999 % of the rest of the world.</i></p>
<p><i>Yonmei: Of course. Orson Scott Card is not the evilest person in the world, but I’m angry at and dismissive of him nonetheless. Who argued otherwise?</i></p>
<p>Just FYI, I understood the commenter&#8217;s comment to refer back to Card&#8217;s contempt for Rowling &#8212; i.e., while Rowling isn&#8217;t the worst person in the world, it&#8217;s still okay to be angry at Rowling. </p>
<p>To that extent, I agree &#8212; There&#8217;s nothing wrong with picking and choosing our targets, and of course, sometimes we pick targets that are &#8220;less evil&#8221; than other targets along various axes. </p>
<p>But the commenter is still missing the point, because the question is, based on what criteria do we pick our targets?  Are we truly picking targets based on &#8220;evil-ness&#8221; or are we picking targets based on some less savory quality, e.g., the target&#8217;s race or gender?  </p>
<p>Yonmei <i>et al</i> have convincingly made the point that gender is a very, very large factor in Card&#8217;s choice. This is identifiable as sexism and misogyny.</p>
<p><i>The intellectual property commentary</i> &#8211; I feel I have to weigh in here.Yonmei quite properly points out several key pieces of analysis that are essential to radical analysis of IP. </p>
<p>(1) Ownership and transfer of ownership to corporations / employers; </p>
<p>(2) the class of creators.  Creators are, in this sense of having wealth but not necessarily being fully class-privileged, are very much like athletes &amp; entertainers. The athlete &amp; entertainer analysis should be familiar to anyone who looks at the intersection of class, wealth, and race.  [One key distinction, not relevant here but I don't want to ignore it, is that writers generally have a higher class-of-origin profile than athletes.] </p>
<p>And I&#8217;ll add two others, because I think that the commenter should complexify their analysis of IP issues:</p>
<p>(3) While some kinds of IP disputes might be clear, bright lines kind of ethical issues, which we IP activists like to champion, that&#8217;s only <i>some</i> kinds of IP disputes.  There&#8217;s usually a lot more to the dispute than the simple issue that gets media attention or even added to the court documents.  By far most IP issues that make it to litigation are morally much greyer and have the character of business disputes. It is silly to, for example, simply assume that the plaintiff is always evil in an IP dispute. Litigation is a late step in a long dispute that often involves wrongs on both sides, and moreover, the &#8220;sides&#8221; are typically business interests. </p>
<p>(4) Even when parties to a dispute are truly individuals, not simply business interests, it is also silly to black-and-white characterize people based on one position in one instance. You don&#8217;t generally know the full fact situation; and you don&#8217;t know their other positions. </p>
<p>For instance, Le Guin was one of the writers on a writers amicus brief arguing against copyright term extension, a much better copyright position than 99% of successful SF writers. For another example, some writers have been &#8220;fine&#8221; with fan works until they were forced by various exigencies to take a more limited approach, and the available limitations are not always within the writers&#8217; control.</p>
<p>(5) Finally, even when a case has free expression issues, it is absolutely silly and reductive to assign <i>moral judgments</i> to the parties based on the implications for free expression / fair use case law.  As I said above, there is usually a lot more to the dispute than you know; the parties usually involve significant business interests of corporations, not individual interests and free decisions; and the individuals involved likely have a lot of ethics and personal beliefs they have balanced to come to their actions.</p>
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